Now, say what you will, but Trent Reznor is an artist who experiments with multiple forms, attempts to expand both his own repertoire and push the envelope of "what is done", and was extraordinarily influential. You may not *like* Nine Inch Nails because you do not like that style of music, but unless you are an expert on music (and my brother is much more an expert than my mother is) or you *like* that style of music and have listened critically to a whole lot of it, you cannot say "Nine Inch Nails is bad music." My mother attempted to make this argument, that because she didn't like it it was objectively bad.
In this case, yes, you can say that Nine Inch Nails is bad music. The purpose of music is not to have new form. Its purpose is communication. I can state "John Cage just sucks." because he decided that a bus farting was a musical event and be completely right in every form of the word 'right.' If he bases his music on a bus farting, and I don't believe that is a musical event, then his music really DOES suck.
Beacuse we're dealing with concepts, not physical or black/white issues. Is a bus farting a musical event? Well, it has pitch, frequency, alternation, overtones . . . at the same time, it's both a random sound and a common one. But so is humming, so can you exclude a bus farting from music? What does a farting bus convey to you?
(I'm not kidding. You really don't want to talk to the gung-ho musicians about 20th and 21st century music. Particularly when it comes to form, because the entire 'appeal' of 20th century music is that it doesn't have 'form' as in a regular body or framework. Hell, it even makes up its own notation. Then again, everyone said the same thing about poliphony when it popped up, so there you go. =)
What I was trying to point out was, when you hear someone say "Movieverse just sucks. I don't like it." they probably mean "Everything I've read I haven't liked." And while asking people to be more specific so they don't accidentally offend is perfectly well and good, the phrasing "Spicy food makes my stomach hurt." and "Spicy foods suck." may mean exactly the same to some people, they're virtually interchangable in the United States in every place I've been.
I also admit that because I don't like the peanut butter I've tried, I am convinced I will not like any peanut butter, and while it's a closed mindset on the subject of peanut butter, I doubt Jiffy is going to get bent out of whack. They have plenty of customers who think peanut butter is the greatest.
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Re: Because there's a difference between "this is crap" and "I don't like it."
Date: 2002-10-30 11:31 am (UTC)In this case, yes, you can say that Nine Inch Nails is bad music. The purpose of music is not to have new form. Its purpose is communication. I can state "John Cage just sucks." because he decided that a bus farting was a musical event and be completely right in every form of the word 'right.' If he bases his music on a bus farting, and I don't believe that is a musical event, then his music really DOES suck.
Beacuse we're dealing with concepts, not physical or black/white issues. Is a bus farting a musical event? Well, it has pitch, frequency, alternation, overtones . . . at the same time, it's both a random sound and a common one. But so is humming, so can you exclude a bus farting from music? What does a farting bus convey to you?
(I'm not kidding. You really don't want to talk to the gung-ho musicians about 20th and 21st century music. Particularly when it comes to form, because the entire 'appeal' of 20th century music is that it doesn't have 'form' as in a regular body or framework. Hell, it even makes up its own notation. Then again, everyone said the same thing about poliphony when it popped up, so there you go. =)
What I was trying to point out was, when you hear someone say "Movieverse just sucks. I don't like it." they probably mean "Everything I've read I haven't liked." And while asking people to be more specific so they don't accidentally offend is perfectly well and good, the phrasing "Spicy food makes my stomach hurt." and "Spicy foods suck." may mean exactly the same to some people, they're virtually interchangable in the United States in every place I've been.
I also admit that because I don't like the peanut butter I've tried, I am convinced I will not like any peanut butter, and while it's a closed mindset on the subject of peanut butter, I doubt Jiffy is going to get bent out of whack. They have plenty of customers who think peanut butter is the greatest.